Returning to work after a relaxing holiday, you make a resolution not to get caught up in the ratrace again. A week later you find yourself right back in. Why? Because the conditions haven’t changed. The corona crisis is a terrible ordeal, but it has also been a period of reflection. Let’s work to change the structures, institutions and rules, so that we do not return to a system that was environmentally destructive, socially unjust and generally terribly unstable. In these two interviews with XR’s rebel radio, Crelis Rammelt (Assistant Professor Environmental Geography and International Development Studies, UvA, starting at 1:12) and Julia Karch (student, UvA) reflect on the crisis from a degrowth perspective.